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Illegal Billboards Forum » So I saw this sign...

1. 

   steve
   Administrator

   Since Rami pointed it out on a walk, this one has bugged me.

   Location: It's visible from the west side highway and is on the side of a Manhattan Mini Storage building. Right now it's an ad for the Love Guru movie. We suspected it covered some vents for the building.

   • link to Manhattan Mini Storage's page on the location
   • link to the poroperty overview page on the Department of Buildings site
   • link to DOB violation for an illegal sign from 1999 - not sure it's related.

   Here it is on Google Street View

   I'll be calling 311 on this tomorrow morning and will follow up here.

   Attachments

   1. 540-17th.jpg (37.8 KB, 6 downloads) 2 years old

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. 

   jordan
   Moderator

   I looked that one up on the BIS website and im new at this but the last sign i saw permitted expired in 05. i also found a complaint filed for this billboard in 99 which was resolved. ive also looked into as many of the other chelsea billboards and was unable to find permits for most of them.

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. 

   steve
   Administrator

   Just called 311. They tranferred me to a DOB specialist who took down my complaint and gave me a complaint number (#1229595). They said I could track the progress on the DOB site. I just looked and it showed up immediately! check it out. The guy translated my complaint a little strangely, but hopefully the inspector can make sense of it.

   I decided to track changes to the page using this service http://page2rss.com which will show any changes to that page in my feed reader. nice!

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. 

   steve
   Administrator

   So I walked by this sign tonight and they were painting it all blue? By hand. With scaffolding. Odd.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. 

   jordan
   Moderator

   maybe they are turning it back to a Manhattan mini storage billboard cause they think or know thats legal. that would make sense with the blue. I grew up across the street from that billboard and for a very long time it was only storage adds if i remember correctly.

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. 

   Rami Tabello
   Moderator

   Here are a list of sign permit applications for the addreess: http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByLocationServlet?jobsubmdate_month=&jobsubmdate_date=&jobsubmdate_year=&stcodekey=SG&passdocnumber=&allbin=1012278&allboroughname=&allstrt=&allnumbhous=&allinquirytype=BXS3PRA3&requestid=5

   Now look at this: http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByNumberServlet?requestid=6&passjobnumber=102595906&passdocnumber=01

   It states: "PLAN EXAM - DISAPPROVED 07/24/2001 (J)"

   Let's find out what "HIGHLINE LOCATION" means - that's a notation on the sign permit applicaiton. It's probably a meaningful thing to know.

   -Rami

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. 

   Rami Tabello
   Moderator

   More information: this very much looks like a third party sign on a first party permit. See this: http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByNumberServlet?requestid=6&passjobnumber=103940835&passdocnumber=01 Note that this is a Self Storage facility. It looks like they leaded a self storage space to Delta Airlines in order to show a Delta Ad. Let's make sure DOB doesn't let them do that again.

   -Rami

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. 

   steve
   Administrator

   The Highline is a new park on an old elevated railway that runs through Chelsea. (It's definitely more than 1/2 acre!) It's new and they are developing it now. Opens later this year.

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. 

   BIZ
   Member

   It is important to note that there are legal signs there that had permits issued before the Highline was designated a PARK.

   Therefore, the signs do not have to be removed.

   If it was there prior, to the highline being designated as a PARK, then we have no ground to stand on.

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. 

    admin
    Key Master

    just noticed that one of the permits says:

    - ADJACENT TO ARTERIAL HIGHWAY - YES

    So, the West Side Highway is an arterial highway, which makes a lot of those vinyl signs in the Chelsea area even more legally weak.

    Also, called this in again and talked to an inspector. He said illegal signs are Priority C and take around 90 days for inspection. Priority A are signs that are immediately physically dangerous i.e falling, etc. Priority B is making sure signs on construction sights are present and correct. He said there are less than 10 inspectors working on signs.

    Anyway, his name is Patrick and we emailed him a photo of the sign to help out today! Hoping we can build a relationship.

    Posted 1 year ago #
11. 

    BIZ
    Member

    So, the West Side Highway is an arterial highway, which makes a lot of those vinyl signs in the Chelsea area even more legally weak.

    Not necessarily! Remember, some of those signs have been there forever and therefore, are grandfathered.

    Posted 1 year ago #
12. 

    steve
    Administrator

    some but not all!

    Posted 1 year ago #
13. 

    steve
    Administrator

    I was thinking about this more while on a boat looking at all the signs on the west side highway yesterday. Some may be grandfathered, but the worst ones are vinyl wallscapes. There's no way those are grandfathered because the technology only came about in the past 10 years or so.

    So, from what I've deduced, the West Side Highway is an arterial highway with lots of illegal vinyl wallscapes that we should make sure have been called in.

    Then we need to dog the DoB to make sure the laws are being enforced.

    Posted 1 year ago #
14. 

    steve
    Administrator

    I just noticed the other day this sign has massive lights that shine on it from both the building, and a structure erected across the street. Since it's illuminated, this might increase the severity of the violation. I will add this to my complaint asap.

    Posted 1 year ago #
15. 

    admin
    Key Master

    I went by this place today to take some photos of the lights. A guy in a suit came out and asked what I was doing photographing his building. I explained that the sign had no permit and neither did the lights. He didn't seem to understand why a citizen might care about the sign. He also insisted that they had permits for everything and that Charles Schwab kept an office in the building.

    It's a Manhattan Mini Storage facility.

    I suppose I'm to believe that when the Love Guru movie billboard was up and the State Farm billboard after, that Mike Myers and State Farm both kept an office in the building as well.

    He also told me if I kept taking pictures he would call the police. Seeing as that I was on the sidewalk I told him he could call the police, but I would still take photos.

    I am now more determined to get this sign removed.

    Posted 1 year ago #
16. 

    BIZ
    Member

    I have done my research and this is what I found :

    Van Wagner seems to be the exclusive media company that places signs on Manhattan Mini-Storage.

    Van Wagner has extreme ties to the city especially as they sell advertising on almost every telephone booth. As I have explained before, they are so tight with the city that they were granted permits for signs directly across from Penn Station when some of those buildings are in zones that DO NOT ALLOW ADVERTISING SIGNS!

    I know this won't discourage you, but good luck in fighting them.

    Look forward to your updates.

    Posted 1 year ago #
17. 

    jordan
    Moderator

    So i have been discussing with a friend the rules of accessory signage and hee is what he has to say.

    The sign you describe on 10th Ave.(The liquor signs at 15th street which are owned by the LVMH group according to BIZ) is also not an accessory use sign. Any sign that "directs attention to goods and services at a location other than the premises where the sign is located" is an "Advertising Sign." An accessory use sign directs attention to a business at the same location only.

    The DOB site does say this about accessory signs "What is NOT an Advertising Sign? A sign that directs attention to a business at the same location as the sign."

    Not sure what to think but thought there was an interesting distinction to be made here.

    Posted 1 year ago #
18. 

    jordan
    Moderator

    Also he said this which i thought very interesting.

    But I am fairly certain that while certain rules do not apply to accessory use signs (such as distance from parks and highways), the rules for calculating the allowable size of signs apply to all signs. The basic rule in Manufacturing districts is that the total area of all signs on a building lot can't exceed six times the length of the total street frontage of the lot (so for some large buildings, a 2000 sf sign would be legal).

    Posted 1 year ago #
19. 

    steve
    Administrator

    Just checked on this and it's been 6 months since I made the initial complaint. No sign of an inspection. Hm. What to do now?

    Posted 1 year ago #
20. 

    steve
    Administrator

    11 months and no inspection.

    Posted 1 year ago #
21. 

    steve
    Administrator

    Still no inspection on this one. The company has taken to advertising only for Manhattan Mini Storage, so perhaps it's good idea to call in and report n oversized first party sign?

    Posted 5 months ago #

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